Isometrics and eccentrics

[jwint]

Greetings all. I'm a new member and due to receive my new rings in three or four days. My question deals with strength training exercises to prepare for ring work.

The first type is isometrics. I'm talking here about the Charles Atlas/Bullworker/Mike Marvel type of exercises. These promise great muscle strength but many people shun them because it's not range of motion strength but more of a static hold strength . . . which actually seems perfect for rings.

Does anyone use this type of isometric work and if so, how?


Secondly . . . eccentrics. I'm talking here about the use of eccentrics in weightlifting. So, for example, press a barbell overhead to a count of two . . . then lower it to a count of 3-4. (Some advocate lowering using up to a count of 7.) Eccentrics are supposed to build superior strength.

Does anyone use this type of lifting when doing resistance training and if so, how?

Thanks

[admin]

Nearly all gymnasts training on rings do both isometrics and eccentrics. An example would be learning to hold the cross. You start out lowering yourself slowly and under control. Over time you develop the ability to hold at various points, obviously as low as possible. And eventually you develop the ability to press out of it. There are other progressions as well, but this one is very common. The actual method used, such as sets, reps, etc will vary from one coach to the next. But generally, you want to keep the total amount of work pretty low, since the intensity is so high.
Using dumbbells is a good way to develop strength for the planche, maltese and inverted cross on rings. The same rules apply about keeping the intensity high and volume low. Dumbbells have one advantage in that you can control the load, so you can work full range and do both positive and negatives. However, it is a bit less specific, so once you get the strength with dumbbells, it will still take some time to transfer that strength to the rings. But I've known several people who used this method with success.

[jwint]

Thanks ADMIN. I suppose a lot of this is (at first glance) common sense.

For example, to do a Dip or a Pullup on rings, I would think that you'd have to first do a Dip and Pullup on parallel bars/handles and a Pullup Bar. If you can't do a dip, then tricep exercises with a dumbbell or close grip bench would be good. Overhead pressing would be good. No Pullup? You can do rows on the rings and slowly develop the progression. Lat Pulldowns and even Deadlifts and Curls would help.

But these barbell/dumbbell exercises are usually done with a 1-2 second concentric and a 2-4 second eccentric. I was wondering if gymnasts use (for example) 7-10 second eccentrics?

Or do gymnasts use any sort of tricep/shoulder isometric exercise (push against a stationary object where the muscle does not move) to strengthen the triceps.

I'll continue searching the web and write to some college gymnastics programs.

I'm interested in this because there are claims out there that isometrics, partials, eccentrics and a few other techniques I can't remember, are superior to "typical" resistance training in building strength. I'm wondering how much of this has filtered into the world of gymnastics.

I do understand this excellent point you made, however: . . . it is a bit less specific, so once you get the strength with dumbbells, it will still take some time to transfer that strength to the rings.

I also understand that a lot of the other work gymnasts do translates to strength building. For example, I would think floor exercises have a lot of isometric holds that build huge strength.

So . . . could be that with all they do, gymnasts have no need for dedicated eccentrics and isometrics.

[admin]

Most gymnasts I know don't really worry about the speed of the concentrics/eccentrics. It's mostly about completing the movement with perfect technique. The speed will really depend on the movement. Some are so difficult that they can't be done fast and others can only be done at plyometric speeds. As you are in the process of developing the slow skills, yes, you will naturally do slow negatives. And gymnasts develop strength in the dip more by working handstands, pushups and stuff like that, as opposed to using dumbbells or other types of weight training. In general, gymnasts don't really focus on which muscles they are working in a given workout. They focus on mastering the movements and the physical results flow from that. Most high-level gymnasts are actually a bit paranoid about putting on too much muscle.
Isometrics have been popular in the past and there are some people that promote them exclusively. They tend to work great for a few weeks, but you tend to plateau quickly. They're not better or worse than other methods, but just another tool in the tool box. Gymnasts tend to do more isometrics than other athletes, simply due to the nature of the sport. This includes a lot of handstand work and strength holds on the rings. But they are also doing a lot of dynamic strength work. Tumbling is really a form of total body plyometrics. To train like a gymnast, you really have to do a mix of all the various components and not just focus on the isometrics.