Tony, you're widely considered as the world's leading expert in Catch-As-Catch-Can wrestling. Could you tell us a little bit about the history of it
and it's development?

Catch has a fascinating history in this country to me. Wrestling in general was common among the farmers and rural people. George Washington, Abe Lincoln, and other famous people were all wrestlers. Around the end of the 19th century Catch started to pick up steam. Led by guys like Tom Jenkins (who later coached at West Point Academy), George Bothner, Farmer Burns, Dan McCleod, and others the style gradually replaced Greco-Roman as the main venue for competition. Submission holds were allowed and the style was more wide-open than Greco and other localized styles that were prevalent at that time. Many great wrestlers traveled the country wrestling all-comers at fairs, carnivals, and gatherings. Farmer Burns, Frank Gotch, Ed Lewis, all were carnival wrestlers and cut their teeth trying out the local pride. Sadly, as time marched on pro wrestling became more like a carnival freak show and its finest elements were relegated to the occasional gym workouts or private affairs. It became entertainment and not a contest.

What first sparked your interest in Catch wrestling? What was your early
training like under Stanley Radwan?

My interest was sparked when Mr. Radwan demonstrated the effectiveness of Catch Wrestling on a know-it-all thirteen year old boy. I always knew him to be a strongman (he traveled the world doing strength shows) but never realized he was a wrestler. Still at 13 years of age in 1977 I thought only martial arts were the "real deal". I had been boxing and doing some martial arts so I thought I didn't need to wrestle. A kick from me, a toe hold from him, soon showed me the err of my ways. The training was frankly very brutal, but I wouldn't want it any other way. Since there were no Catch competitions, my training was 100% street fighting style. Eye gouging, biting, ripping, clawing, weapons, etc….anything goes. It was the most realistic training I have ever encountered. His first line of attack was to get me stronger. So I did many exercises and lifted weights. Then gradually he laid the solid foundation of wrestling skill that was needed. It made me tough mentally as well as physically. I always knew that nothing I would face would be as painful as my mat time. But more importantly it taught me the importance of perseverance. I was not allowed to drill a move 20 times. It had to be in the thousands before I was allowed to move on. Sometimes weeks would go by and all I would be doing was a single move. But that is how life is. You never stop learning and you can always improve what you already know. On the negative side (for my wrestlers), it's made me a "tough coach". I don't take to slacking off very well from my students. I demand 100% effort. They like me once the workout is over….lol.

You were also coached by the great Lou Thesz, could you tell us a bit about
him and his conditioning methods?

Lou was simply one of the greatest human beings I have ever met. I miss him deeply. He was soft-spoken but tremendously knowledgeable. When he deemed me a Hooker it was the high point in my life. For those that may not know what that means or who think they can buy me for an hour, it's the highest level of wrestling you can achieve. It denotes a man who is completely fluent in the application of "hooks" which are crippling submission holds. I look at it this way. There are maybe thousands of athletes alive who are black belts in martial arts, but you can count the number of Hookers on one hand. That's why it means so much to me. Like Lou told me, "Welcome to the most exclusive club in the world".

The last time we were together we lifted weights at his condo's workout room. He was strong and lithe at the same time. He always recommended weight training in addition to calisthenics. He also played a lot of handball as a younger wrestler and that helped his wind. Remember, you only have a certain amount of time in the day to train. Back in his day, the wrestlers spent many hours on the road driving to their next wrestling venue. They had to learn how to improvise exercise routines. No one could devote 2 hours or so to conditioning exercises. Of course each wrestler had his specialty and each wrestler had his favorite exercises to do. There wasn't a broad-brush approach. Some exercises were universally employed such as bridging, but generally then like now, everyone gave it their personal touch. As long as you were improving, you were doing something right. My approach is to hit the major muscle groups and work both pulling and pushing. Most Catch Wrestling takes place on the mat, therefore you better have a good upper body. It doesn't matter if you can squat 1,000lbs. Once you're off your feet it's a whole different world.

One thing I couldn't help but notice about Catch wrestling is that it was
very popular among old-time strongmen. What did Catch wrestling add to the
repetoire of the old-time strongmen, most of whom were talented in many
sports other than weightlifting?

I think it added a sense of sportsmanship or challenge as well as an excellent source for working the muscles of the body. The world didn't have many professional sports, perhaps just baseball and boxing at that time. This was a great outlet for the men to be competitive in an environment that rewarded fitness. The list of weightlifters that wrestled and wrestlers that weightlifted is a long one. George Hackenschmidt may be the most famous, but men like Eugene Sandow, Louis Cyr, Milo Steinborn, even Arthur Saxon all tried their hand at wrestling. I am told that Hermann Goerner wrestled also. The wrestling gave them suppleness and (hopefully) increased their cardiovascular capacity. Also, it enabled them to garner the knowledge of people from different walks of life. That can be an outstanding opportunity to gain knowledge.

I heard that you recently added Kettlebells and Clubbells to your training
regimen. What do you think of them so far? How do you think you will fit
them into your overall training program?

Well I did Indian clubs as a young man so that concept is not new to me. I never had access to kettlebells so that is a recent acquisition. The Clubbells are especially rewarding because it enhances the shoulder girdle, wrist, forearm etc. It acts in a way to hit muscles commonly used in my style of wrestling. Kettlebells help the explosiveness which is great and needed.. Both items should be added to your exercise regime. Coupling them with a solid weightlifting program (I am an avid powerlifter) and the occasional bodyweight routine will certainly give you enough material to keep busy. Just keep focused on the point at hand. If you want to use it to become a better wrestler that's fine. Just don't let anything interfere with your wrestling training. No matter how fit you are you still need to know techniques. If that wasn't the case, Jack LaLanne would have been the toughest man that ever lived.

What do you think about the recent growth in popularity of mixed martial
arts? Where do you see it going as a sport?

Tough question. I have never been very good at predicting trends. Right now I'm not sure just how popular the sport is. It's hard for me to gauge therefore it's hard for me to draw any conclusions as to its future. The athletes competing in these events certainly love the sport. That is a great sign. I just hope politics (internal and external) doesn't become the main source of fighting. Let the fighters take care of that.

One of the interesting challenges of mixed martial arts is that there are so
many variables that a person must be trained to overcome. What is your
approach to training a well-rounded combat athlete?

First and foremost you must LEARN the basics. Too many guys want to know all these techniques and in the end they become poor at what they are trying to do. To develop takes time. Nothing is easy. Look at world-class athletes in other sports. It took them years to develop in a structure that gave them adequate coaching, competition, and support. The talent pool is much larger in other sports also. As a coach, I attempt to look at each athlete as an individual and assess their strengths and weaknesses. I need to bring out the best in them not make them clones of myself or anyone else. We are all individuals and therefore we act and react differently. I would most likely train you differently than your best friend. My initial efforts lean towards seeing what you are made of both physically and mentally. Without question mental conditioning is the most important attribute. You must be strong, dedicated, and focused mentally. I don't care how great you are from a technique standpoint; everything starts as a thought in your mind. That is where I begin my training. From there, I attempt to dissect you and prepare a game plan based on how much time I'm given. I attempt to tighten up your current knowledge before embarking on any new studies. Sometimes it's just a matter of reinforcing the basics or showing them how to augment their techniques to make them more effective. Then when we have more time, I can start to really get their feet wet in Catch Wrestling. It's not something you can learn in a week or two. It's a commitment.