Exclusive Interview with the "Evil Russian" Pavel Tsatsouline Pavel Tsatsouline is America's hottest trainer and author of the new book "From Russia with Tough Love". He recently took the time to share some of his early training experiences with us and even design a great workout for all-around conditioning. Pavel does a kettlebell demo at a military and law enforcement course at the Direct Action Resource Center. Photo courtesy Sgt. Charles Fair, US Army
GM: How did you first become interested in physical culture? Could you describe some of your early training?
Pavel: My father is a fanatic of self-improvement and he got me interested in martial arts and physical conditioning. A Soviet Army officer, he had me do military style PT -pullups, one-legged squats, running, etc. In my teens I got hooked on the hard simplicity of kettlebells. There was no looking back.
GM: You have a great story about how you came to America and opened your first gym inside of an abandoned bank vault. What did this gym look like? What kind of equipment did you have?
Pavel: It was a cool 'courage corner'. An old downtown bank no longer had any use for a couple of its vaults, submarine doors, metal bars, and all the works. It tried to rent them out to an armored car company but the latter already had all the facilities it needed. For me it was a perfect fit -you could drop any weights without problems and nobody could hear my victims' screams. I started with the basics: a barbell with a lot of plates, a pullup stand, and power rack. Later I had a machine shop drill extra holes in the cage and got some toys like a thick bar. For kicks, I displayed a copy of a book titled The History of Torture on my desk. It never failed to make a new victim look for the exit.
GM: How has your own training changed throughout the years? What are your current fitness goals and what does your current training look like?
Pavel: FDR once said, "Do what you can with what you have where you are." When I first came to the States I trained on a children's playground, did isometrics, and lifted whatever odd objects I could find. I also made makeshift 'rings' out of nylon webbing and tied them to the doorway of a storage locker in the basement of my apartment building. I stupidly reasoned that I did not need rings for my hands and I could just stick my hands into the loops. After the first set the nooses tightened around my wrists and I was stuck. My feet barely touched the floor and I hung there crucified. I had never seen another person in the storage locker area and I was facing a very unpleasant death. Flexibility helped; I managed to loosen up one of the nooses with my toes.I mostly did deadlifts and heavy ab work from Bullet-Proof Abs at my bank vault 'courage corner'. Then I got some kettlebells from Russia and jumped back in. These days I mix things up: kettlebells, deadlifts, pullups, pistols, heavy abs. I do not do them all at once though. My current goal is to master the hook grip deadlift.
GM: How do you train soldiers differently than civilians? For example, how would the training of a soldier compare to the training of an athlete?
Pavel: Let us use strength as an example. An athlete can afford to be strong due to large muscles but a soldier or a Marine cannot. In wartime and even during exercises muscle rapidly melts away, thanks to malnutrition, sleep deprivation, and stress. A military man must gain strength by retraining his nervous system to contract his, even shrunken, muscles harder.
The above style of neural strength training is ideally done when the trainee is totally fresh. But a soldier must exert himself when he is exhausted. Therefore at least some of the strength practice must be conducted in a state of fatigue, sometimes extreme fatigue. In the Spetsnaz it is an SOP to initiate a new guy by putting him through all sorts of hell and then have him fight a few fresh and experienced guys hand to hand. Applied to neural strength training, you could hump ninety pounds of gear on uneven terrain or go for an ocean swim, and then do your pullups and kettlebell snatches.
To sum with an analogy, an athlete is like a racecar that performs like a clock on a perfect track, with top grade fuel and oil, etc. Pull it out of its ideal environment and you have got a problem. A soldier is a Hummer that will perform under most adverse conditions.
GM: How do you train someone for peak performance in these opposite ends of the spectrum, endurance and strength?
Pavel: Kettlebell training has been documented to improve a soldier's 'ends of spectrum' PT. Following is such a workout I designed for a friend in the Force Recon:Monday
-Weighted pullups -5x5
-Alternate the pullups with cleans and presses (military, not push presses!) -2x24kg KBs, also 5x5
-Rock bottom front squats with a one second pause -2x32kg KBs -5x5
-Snatch with a 32kg KB -5 sets, hard but not to failure
-Alternate the snatches with strict hanging leg raises -5 setsWednesday
-One arm C&Js with a 32kg KB -10 min, play it by ear
-Heavy abs -5x5
-Pullups -100 total
-Alternate with front squats, sets of 10 with 2x24kg KBs
-Snatches or swings with a 24kg KB -alternate sets of 10-20 with 100 yd jogs (not sprints! the jog is for recovery) for as long as you can handle it
-Cough up a hairball!Friday
Start over.
After three weeks reduce the reps by 50% for a week -very important!
GM: I am curious about the upcoming Tactical Strength Challenge, how did you design the event?
Pavel: The Tactical Strength Challenge is new military and law enforcement applied strength sport. With the help of 'the Party' (dragondoor.com forum), I tried to select the events that most closely meet the strength needs of military and law enforcement personnel while giving them the biggest bang for each drill. You do not have to wear a uniform to accept the challenge. Go to www.tacticalstrengthchallenge.com and see if you have what it takes. The site also has great articles on cutting edge military PT.
GM: The content of your books is very diverse, everything from yoga techniques to ideas from old school powerlifting. You seem to have mastered both the science and the practice of weight training. How did you study to become as knowledgeable as you are?Pavel: Thank you for your kind words! Formal education is only the beginning in any field. You must remain a humble student for the rest of your life. I am constantly learning something new, be it from an old Russian textbook, 'the Party' (Dragon Door Forum), a neuroscience journal, or a pre-WWII Strength & Health. It does not change my 'low tech/high concept' training message but helps me to sharpen it.
GM: Are you planning on coming back to Seattle?
Pavel: Back in January to inflict pain on your fine city. Power to you, Comrades!
GM: Thank you Pavel, I'm looking forward to a painful day in January.
